Editor's Note: This is the first part in a series on Saginaw County Law
Enforcement. Future issues will look at the effects of downsizing,
interview other public safety leaders, and examine the inter-relationship
between law enforcement & the community.
How many people in the Tri-City area have been as widely reviled
and strongly supported by complete strangers as Saginaw Police Officer Dan
Kuhn?
Well, former Saginaw Police Chief James Golden is one name that comes to
mind, but controversy often invites irony.
Setting aside the past legal battles and fiery rhetoric, Review Magazine
invited Officer Kuhn, recently elected President of the Saginaw Police
Officers Association, to discuss his new role as union president, the
current contract negotiations, and the role of the union in a metropolitan
police department.
REVIEW: Were you born and raised in Saginaw?
Dan Kuhn: Actually I grew up in Waukegan, Illinois.
R: And moved here when?
DK: I moved here in 1985, to attend Central Michigan University. I was an
athlete in college and I had a scholarship to attend Central Michigan.
R: What did you play?
DK: Actually I ran cross-country and track.
R: And what brought you to Saginaw?
DK: Well, in a roundabout way, at Mt. Pleasant I was always curious as to
what law enforcement would be like as a career. I had a very good friend
who is now Sheriff over there, Barry De Luau who was a deputy at the time.
I had a job at the horse track and I met some of the local officers because
I was managing a bar over there to make some extra money on the side. In
1989 I decided to go to the police academy and I put myself through the
police academy over at Delta College, where I met many of the guys who are
now my co-workers at the Saginaw Police Department.
I got a job at the Monroe County Sheriff's Department. After a short stint
there I then got a job at the City of Brighton Police Department. Nice
town. I was there for thirteen months and I was then offered a job by
(former Saginaw Police Chief) Alex Perez in February of '91. And I took the
job and came here.
R: Alex is a great guy.
DK: Very good man. In fact I saw him 18-20 months ago in Elkhart. He's
doing real good. Now I think they're trying to entice him into
politics...Mayor or something.
R: Why did you want to become President of the Policemen's Union?
DK: I have always been involved with the union pretty much ever since I was
hired. I participated as a union steward. I chaired the political action
committee for a while before I was terminated. I was very active and it's
always been an interest.
The President at the time, Ron Gwizdala, was doing a great job. We're good
friends and I helped him the best I could. Some of the officers who had
been in trouble, I was involved in that. I did a defense fund for Boes and
Howe. I've always been active in the union.
R: Was it weird running against Ron, since you say you're good friends?
DK: I don't know about weird...it was...
R: Uncomfortable...strange...
DK: I guess uncomfortable would be the word. Uncomfortable, but no hard
feelings. It offered the membership a choice and we're moving on. He's been
very supportive, as I would have been if he'd won.
R: What was your reaction when you realized that you'd won?
DK: When I came back after almost a two year layoff I made up my mind to
run because there were some things that I thought could be done better.
I'd always been critical no matter who was President. Even from the outside
as a civilian I kept an eye on things and how they went. They were my
friends, a lot of them, and I was very supportive.
When I got back ... it was an experience that I wish upon nobody. It was a
real eye opener as to what can go wrong, what things can happen when a
labor/management relationship breaks down.
I took some classes and finished up my degree at Central Michigan in Public
Administration while I was off and I took some Labor Management classes
that were quite interesting because it was right up my alley.
I was experiencing it as I was taking the classes. I wanted to make sure it
didn't happen to anybody again. I wanted to improve on labor/management
relations here. I thought they needed some improvement after the last
administration. I think there was some damage done, and I think relations
greatly improved under current City of Saginaw Police Chief Don Pussehl.
R: But once you won, what was your feeling?
DK: The word I've been using and the word I'll continue to use is
vindication... a real vindication.
I just felt it was an endorsement from my co-workers and my peers. But I
never expected to garner as many votes as I got. I didn't know how many
votes I could get. You never really know. It was nice that they were
supportive and they made their choice. I asked my wife, "You know, what
word should I use when people ask me how I felt?" And even more than being
reinstated to the police department and getting my job back, it's nice to
know that my co-workers are still behind me.
R: You can win the battle but lose the war. I'm not saying that's your
case, but if the atmosphere you go back to is poisoned or even split and
bitterly divided, you have to go to work everyday and work with these
people.
DK: It was a long couple of years. And my wife stayed around through the
whole thing. It was very difficult at times. And it was nice to know that
my co-workers were also there. Even if they weren't there personally, they
were there in spirit.
I'll tell you what I did feel. I feel an obligation now that I can go
forward as the president. I feel very obligated. I appreciate the
opportunity they've given me. I'm going to work hard for them.
R: What's the status of contract negotiations now...just in a general way?
DK: The negotiations are ongoing. We plan on having another meeting in the
next couple of weeks with management... the City.
The negotiations are being handled by the executive board that was in place
when the contract expired. And they are doing a very good job. They're up
to speed on all that. I'm taking my lead from them although I'm
participating as the president and trying to move them along.
And when they give the green light to present something to the membership
for ratification we'll do that. We should be able to get that darn thing
resolved here soon.
R: What are the duties of the union president?
DK: When the officers have concerns either with supervision or discipline
they've received they come to me. With this Chief of Police the
communication has been good and I don't anticipate that changing. The
relationship has been very good.
I decide whether a grievance is needed or whether we can work it out with
management, without anything being reduced to paper, which is the easiest.
If there are grievances...and there will always be grievances...we'll take
them to arbitration. We'll take them to a grievance hearing first. And if
we can't resolve it at the City Hall level we'll continue on to
arbitration.
I'll continue to represent the member along with the executive board
members. You're pretty much responsible for the relationship between labor
and management. Over at City Hall...(Labor Relations Administrator) Ralph
Carter has been very good and I don't see that changing either.
R: What do you think members want from the union?
DK: I think they want, of course, their representation. They want someone
that will come to their defense when need be.
R: Two things that come to mind are to go to bat for them in disciplinary
issues and then contract negotiations are another place where the union
comes in. Any other major areas where the union comes into play?
DK: We're looking at the possibility down the line, and I don't think any
decisions have been made, but it's quite possible that eventually the city
may lay off more city jobs and I know that the young officers are very
concerned about that.
If I carried one group it was the young officers because they know that
I'll defend those jobs the best I can. I think the experience that I've
been through has helped establish myself among the ranks, that I'll be
willing to fight.
I mean, I had no choice but fight. I was terminated from my employment and
I had to get my job back. It's very hard for an officer who is fired for
the things that were alleged, that I was fired for, to get a job in law
enforcement. That sort of thing sticks to you. It's like a ball and chain
you can't cut off. That's why I'm very happy I was put back to work.
R: I just wondered whether people who only hear about contracts and
disciplinary issues don't know if there's maybe more to the union than that.
DK: Well, I think there should be more to the union. Charities. One of the
things I'd like to do is get out into the community a bit more and build a
relationship with some of the charitable organizations.
I want to explore the idea of a scholarship for both Saginaw High and
Arthur Hill High School students going on into law enforcement. Whether we
do that as a local or as part of the state union, or together with a local
business is something we need to look at.
Another thing I really wanted to do is while I was off, I presented my
story to some of the union people in the county and a lot of them were not
familiar with our union or its personnel.
And I want to try to build more of a relationship with them. A lot of them
know me, for good or bad reasons, and I want to build on that.
R: One final question... the special status that policemen, firemen,
teachers have. They can't strike the same way that, say; a GM shop can
strike and stop working. Any particular comments about the pros and cons of
that?
DK: I understand where that came from. Public safety, the integrity of that
has got to be protected. If I were a civilian I wouldn't want the police
officers on strike. That's why the labor/management has got to be not only
improved, but maintained - so that we can get these darn contracts resolved
in a timely manner and that the relationship stays good.
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